Firstly I want to state this post is out to slate anyone, not Chris Brogan nor the people who take a dislike to him. The reason for this post is from a extremely passionate and well written article by Nathan Hangen on this very subject. Nathan was venting (extremely articulately) about social media and how some are using to go to town on people.
The post has a stack of comments and it raised some great debate, the one comment that really stood out for me was Kieth from HotBlogTips, who I regard as a real good friend and extremely honest bloke. His comment was no different, he said he used to be one of the ones who flamed on Chris, Darren Rowse and even David Risley, but having grown up he can now admit it was pure jealousy.
- Success
When people start out in anything, it’s exciting and challenging, we make new friends, in fact we make a stack of new friends and those friends seem like the very best in the world, they walk on water. This happened to me and I can honestly say I have made so many new connections via this site, that it’s honestly so exciting. However, I do know how it feels to get a negative comment and it hurts me badly.
I think when you are the free advice person you are golden, everyone loves you because you understand what this whole game is about and you reply to everything and not thinking about anyone but the readers. There comes a point though as Chris says in his recent post, that you have to scale it when it becomes a business.
Now this site gets over a thousand comments a month (not including my own replies) and I get on average about 30-50 emails a day and with my full time job this takes a lot of time, but think about Chris’ position right now, on average 600 emails A DAY, that is an incredible amount of incoming to deal with, I put this into military terms and it’s like being on patrol and constantly being hit for ten hours till you get back to base, till you can get the rest of your work done.
- Free
I touched on everyone loving free, but I think Nathan mentioned that there is a higher percentage on people that complain about free and I think he is right. Think about this in objective terms, you keep giving and giving, more and more free information that you pure so much effort into and people love it, it’s why you have become so popular, they are addicted to your free content and excellent advice, but then for what ever reason you turn it into a business and start charging for things.
Third tribe has taken a bit of a hammering from some corners while others are raving about it, Third Tribe is one of Chris’ many ventures but some really dislike it and have written posts about why they dislike it. Disagreeing with something is fine by me, I fully expect it when I launch my products and services so that’s fine, but some articles I have read have been extremely hard hitting. Again objectively though, Chris is running a business, he is going to promote his business isn’t he?
Would you pure weeks and weeks of effort into a product that you believe will help others and then not promote it? Would you want it to be everything it could be or let the product or service down by not actually promoting it where ever you go, which could potentially give the impression that you don’t believe in it.
- Snap
So far this post suggests that I love Chris Brogan and any other top flight in this market, truth is I don’t. I actually only read Chris’ post in full for the first time yesterday because Nathan (who I look up to a lot) wrote such a fire filled piece about him I had to check it out. Now I have written on here about a recent event that I saw happen and I disagreed massively with, but is there a twist to it.
I have seen Chris publicly snap on someones site because they disagreed with the way the article portrayed his new product, fair enough as I said I would take this as a hit too and as I said I struggle when people try and bring it to me. I can honestly say though that the way I saw Chris react and I’m sure on reflection everyone including Chris would say that was a bad reaction, however was this the final straw?
No one is baby Jesus, no one can take it and take it and be expected to never hit back, there are entire sites that are pretty much dedicated to flaming the top flight, but ultimately who are they helping?
- My Personal View
Now I have come to this game and ruffled a few feathers by the way I insist you have to reply to everything that comes your way, they way you have to treat people etc, David Risley touches on this in his interview with Robb Sutton, that said I know that something may change when this turns into a business, especially when it turns into the sort of business I want to be, ie – BIG.
Now I am always banging on about how as a website owner, you work for your readers your readers have put you in that position so you do everything for them, reply to them, protect them and be there whenever they need you. However, is this all down to perception?
Does Chris be there for his readers by producing new content for his site, is that the quickest way of addressing the majority of his 600 emails a day? This might upset some people, but as a person who is growing and learning every day about this business are the haters jealous or will they make what they are actually saying into a business themselves?
- Point
This post is a fair bit long for this site, but it’s something I am really interested in hearing your point of view on it all, are people always going to attack the top flight? Should we bear in mind that if and when they do fight back, it’s probably about time or should the top flight expect it?
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Chris Brogan used to be a blogger and had things of value to say, then as he made some serious money and companies bought his dynamic rap he changed into some ICON that people insist has something to say worth hearing. I had a run in with him and it was Funny how he knows how to slip and slide, he unfriended me on FB and then kept the convo going to impressed his cult like flock LOL
Hey I’m glad he makes money and according to him charges 22k a day to companies, anyway he doesn’t have to much to say that I want to hear I’m not into that fancy white collar suck up crap and I don’t care if it cost me money. The bottom line is he has been around along time and to me he is a sell out which will happen to most bloggers as they go they turn from Blogger to Sales man I have seen 100′s come and GO. His loyal Zombies keep him there he has reach and if that is the TOP of the Competition then you know it’s an easy ride to the TOP. I don’t hate the dude I just am hip to people that screw people for money. Money is first for him not people no matter what he may say about his space etc You want any of these guys attention talk money 
GET RIPPED LOL That dude is irrelevant in my world, the real one
.-= John Sullivan@The Blog No One Reads´s last blog ..Resources for bloggers =-.
Hey John,
Thanks for stopping by man, brother 22k a day is an amazing amount of cash, how would you scale the amount of contact he gets? What I mean is how would you manage the amount of incoming messages versus providing for your family? I’m not sticking up for either party here, just trying to think of a way that if I ever get to that point that I could actualy manage both?
Dude people probably say the Queen of England works hard and baby her. The bottom line is he was a blogger now he’s a salesman. A blogger puts people first money second. I don’t give a damn if he answers people back or not he is about cash money and you can’t blame him for that everyone has to eat. I DON’T HATE the dude I just don’t have the respect for him like many of his excuse makers do. Darren has a girl that works for him that keeps up with his stuff and when/if I can’t keep up with my little world I would have someone acting on my behalf.Look I know this attitude will cheat me out of ops to write some lame book about social media and all that but say if I wrote one that tells the real story and it sells 2x’s as many ? Then what ? LOL
PS turn that twitter auto send OFF 
LOL
Settle down James you will be King soon
.-= John Sullivan@The Blog No One Reads´s last blog ..Resources for bloggers =-.
Hey man,
Aren’t bloggers salesmen anyway? Trying to get to the top, I get what you’re saying man, just trying to put a different spin on it dude, bear with me here;
If you had your children and family stood next to you and a business next to you saying here is $20k for your family or here is $500 for your family and your readers will get your work for free?
I’m not trying to be arguementative here dude, just trying to see it from both sides of the fence, what do you think?
£22k a day would make one hell of a dent in the Universe, James!
.-= Matthew Needham´s last blog ..Challenge: Save £1000/$1000 in 30 days =-.
Dude even if you do two days a month like that, that’s the kind of money pop stars are on, incredible
You are the type of person that I addressed in my post…thinking that being a blogger means you have to work for free and be there all the time for everyone. That’s bogus.
Why is trying to make a living supporting your family make you a sell-out? Sounds like jealousy to me.
Screwing people for money…really?
Oh, and that “lady” that works for him…her last name is Brogan.
.-= Nathan Hangen´s last blog ..Social Media Has Become a Virus =-.
Yo Guru
Actually I should of stayed out of this whole lame drama because I have better things to do;)
Since I already tried to let you know I did work for the Army when I lived In Fayetteville via Twitter and you had no response and then I seen your work and I have no response about that, the LADY I was referring to works for Darren and she is actually young so I should of said girl
.-= John Sullivan@The Blog No One Reads´s last blog ..Do Follow Blogs-Google Buzz Experiment =-.
Yeah, read the post wrong. I know the girl that works for Darren though, pretty well actually. She needs to earn more…that’s all I’ll say about that.
Sometimes I miss @’s…that’s life.
You say you don’t hate…but you’re full of shit.
.-= Nathan Hangen´s last blog ..Social Media Has Become a Virus =-.
I 100% agree with Nathan.
So, I blog about Insurance. No sales pitch, no community to join or e-book to buy. Just free information to help people make insurance decisions. But because I Sell insurance too I’m a Sellout to the Blogging Community? Craziness…
I think Chris Brogan does a Fantastic job and I am certainly NOT a ZOMBIE (Though I did think that Zombieland was Awesome)…
I’m going to take a saying from the Rap world that I think fits perfectly here…
“Don’t Hate the Playa Hate the Game”
Ryan H., http://www.ryanhanley.com
.-= Ryan Hanley´s last blog ..How Your Homeowners Protects You On Vacation =-.
Brogan has become smug in his attitude. He has gotten too big for his britches. It isn’t about “giving away free info” or any of that, and it isn’t about people being jealous. It’s that Brogan is a “social media” guy who teaches businesses how to be social, yet he doesn’t practice what he preaches. He says things like “I’d be social but I am just too busy.” (paraphrase)… to me, this is like being an auto mechanic who never changes the oil in his car because he is too busy driving the car.
BTW– he could cut back on his 600 emails if he would just be social in his comment section. The comment section is a place to interact, add value and teach… the essence of web 2.0. Whereas writing new posts all the time is a way of providing only one-way communication and is not social or interactive. In the social media world, it isn’t about “me” it’s about “them” … I think Brogan has lost site of this.
Now as far as Nathan’s article, I think he raises some good points, but what we all need to realize is that we all use tools like Twitter and facebook differently and that doesn’t make anyone right or wrong. It is what it is. But when someone becomes an authority on those tools (Brogan), then he opens himself up for criticism… that is how the world works. It was the same way when I was a preacher… once you started traveling and preaching and having influence on people, the critics came out of the woodwork. It was par for the course and expected.
And finally, I always say this, but if people would step outside of the blogging/social media/internet marketing world, they’d find that all this drama doesn’t exist.
I can all but guarantee that your local “I sell shag carpeting” blogger doesn’t feel any of these issues.
AL
.-= Allyn´s last blog ..How To Get Links By Darren Rowse And I Agree! =-.
Hey brother,
I get the whole if you’re Mr Social media then you have to be socialable, I have seen on his twitter account over 63,000 tweets, do you think it would be better for him to try and scale the tweets down to make sure he could comment more in the comments section of his site?
I agree they wouldn’t find the problem in anything that is outside the marketing world, that said they would have their own problems for sure, I think this is possibly about perception? I know the first comments have been really passionate and I expect the rest will be, just trying to play devils advocate a bit.
You mentioned how you could reduce the number of emails if he was more active in the comments etc, which I think is less than 600 a day, but how else do you think he could scale it a bit better?
Tweets are fine, but Twitter is owned by someone else.
We are losing site of what social media is all about. The blog is the ultimate in social media tools and Twitter should be a conduit to get the convo going there. This can be done without being pushy or overbearing.
We are getting off track here, but the results are clear:
Brogan has 30,000 blog subscribers and averages 25 comments per post. Something just ain’t right about that and it starts with the fact that he is not social on his own blog that is housed under his given name.
AL
.-= Allyn´s last blog ..How To Get Links By Darren Rowse And I Agree! =-.
Hey man,
I know how much time I spend working on this site so I can only imagine the amount of time it must take on Chris’ site, that said I have found it odd that he doesn’t reply to everything or even 50% of everything, but everyone and every business is different, why do you think people follow Chris?
DO you think it’s cool by association or because they are implementing the advice he is giving out and it’s working?
yeah man, you don’t have to reply to “everything” …it takes a balance of course, but I don’t see that with him.
And, honestly, what does it take to reply to comments, 1 hour a day?
I know I get a lot of comments so I just don’t post as often if I feel I can’t be involved. it’s a simple formula.
And I don’t know why people follow Chris. I used to for a couple months but found nothing of value to me personally or to my business, so I stopped.
AL
.-= Allyn´s last blog ..How To Get Links By Darren Rowse And I Agree! =-.
Allyn,
My problem isn’t with Twitter or Facebook, but with the crusaders that treat social media like it’s some sort of “special” thing to be coddled.
It’s nothing special, it’s just different. It helps people make money.
Criticism is part of the game, but it’s people like Scott Stratten, calling themselves “Social Media Jedi” that makes me puke. What is a social media Jedi?
.-= Nathan Hangen´s last blog ..Social Media Has Become a Virus =-.
rofl, never heard of Stratten, and that Jedi title sounds a little goofy… I will have to check him out just for fun on a Sunday.
And I agree, tools are tools, nothing special. Some people use a hammer to pound nails, others use it to bash in skulls.
AL
.-= Allyn´s last blog ..How To Get Links By Darren Rowse And I Agree! =-.
Marketeers, call this eating your own ‘dog food’. If you don’t do what you tell others to do, it’s not going to be a very authentic business model for which people are going to pay big money for, for long.
.-= Matthew Needham´s last blog ..Challenge: Save £1000/$1000 in 30 days =-.
I like that term eating dog food, yeah man I honestly believe you have to practice what you preach
You are absolutely right Allyn, my fence products site doesn’t feel any of this, and I sold $10k this week on a PR1 no name site with a shitty design that I spent no time on. Still, those of us in the “blogging for bloggers” (which I am also in) world are somehow affected, should we be? Yes and no in my opinion. Should I be worried about whether or not you actually practice link stacking since you wrote about it? No, not in my view. What I should do as an online marketer is take common sense, add some research, and come up with my own idea of how to do it. At the same time, I would think that a theory like that didn’t just come out of thin air.
I have mad respect for you and your actual abilities as an online marketer, but I don’t understand the reasoning behind ripping on other marketers for being successful. I did like the parodies you did before, they were funny, while honest at the same time.
Why should we worry so much about WTF Brogan or anybody else is doing or not doing? It is like cable TV, don’t like it? Change the channel.
.-= Keith´s last blog ..Blog Tip: Secret To Success =-.
Interesting discussion you started here.
James, that link you linked to of mine, that post would have been so VERY different had they set the turd tribe up and FILLED it with stuff first, they didn’t, they ripped people off with an empty space and some crap (seminar? a person talking is not a seminar!) from one of their pimp me and I’ll pimp you buddies…then sat back and watched those who fell for it like sheep fill it up, it was ALL lame
John and Allyn make great points.
Nathan, your reply to John I think misses his point.
The thing is, Chris (I don’t dislike him) set himself up for this crap, he BRAGS all the time, he is smug, he is lacking in dealing with his own mess…he ask for people to email him, why?
Then he moans about his “workload” and yet like Allyn said, he misses out on the best platform he has…his blog, which is boring to me by the way.
IF he makes the sort of money OFF his blog why does he need to EVER promote crap or affiliate links on his blog?
Let’s face it, IF you are making damn good money elsewhere forget the money completely on the blog.
This is where I think Nathan your point falls, he made money as a result of “giving freely” so much over the years… it’s led him to get these “consulting” fees and more, he is always speaking somewhere, think he does all that shit free?
But you are spot on about Scott Stratten, I knew him from years ago and thought he was ok, he has deaf kids so you can see why I related to him in a way, but yeah he is the twitter goof, for me.
Allyn really nails it James, we been around for a while and probably seen how things changed.
His point about balance is spot on, Chris has it all OUT of balance.
Rob
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
Rob,
In many ways I think we’re on the same page here…my point is that just because you blog doesn’t mean you can’t make money. Let’s be honest, we’re all here to do just that.
Chris promoted my book, so you’ll never find me hating on him for earning extra cash. In my opinion, there’s no such thing as too much cash.
As for the 22K…he never came out and said it, but I’m guessing that’s what NML charged for his appearance, but that doesn’t all go straight into Chris’ pocket.
I’m not here to defend Chris…he’s a big boy and he can do that himself, but I’ll say that in my personal interactions with Chris, he’s always been great. Without his help, Beyond Blogging would not have been nearly as successful as it was.
.-= Nathan Hangen´s last blog ..Social Media Has Become a Virus =-.
I agree, I laugh at people who say, you blog, don’t make money with it, it’s really got sod all to with ANYone else what any blogger does…as long as they stick to their own beliefs then great.
For me, if I was making money in a good way off a blog, I’d not bother even thinking about it in the same way on the blog.
But yes, we are all here to do that…
He may be helpful and such, then again… he has to be, because if he wasn’t he would be failing in what he preaches and people would see it very clearly.
In one sense Allyn has shown that to be true with his blog and comments…
He set himself up to be that “helpful easy to email and ask guy” and he has no choice but to be that way.
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
Interesting man thanks brother,
I think it’s all about balance and you’re right because I’m knew to the market I haven’t actually seen a lot of all this develop, for me you have to reply to your readers and for me I would say it’s by replying one to one, that’s the reason this site is where it is, because of you guys not because of me, that said I really REALLY like your point of if you are making that much else where could you make your site completely free, on the other hand is it stealing your childrens inherritance?
” ~ on the other hand is it stealing your childrens inheritance?”
No, think about this way, people LIKE free, so they are far more likely to help growth because they share it more, this leads to bigger better monetising offline if that’s what you are doing… success begets success even if it’s shown freely.
Hope that makes sense?
Let’s face it, if we are using our blogs in some sense as part of the kids inheritance we are doing things wrong.
Ya blog is JUST a platform.
Where the platform takes you is what counts and if you do it right by planning it, you should be able to maximise whatever the right way.
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
Interesting man,
I have recently just starting to come round to that style of thinking, it’s a platform, a springboard if you like to get where you want….. Hmmmmm got me thinking now about if you can make a career of free? Think it’s possible?
Course it is…
Have a think about that… I am sure you will see it happens all the time, free is a great lead in with anything, I am sure you can think of many a business that utilises free…and some seem to do nothing BUT free…to the eye that is, what goes on behind the curtain may be a different matter.
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
The Third Tribe could be a cool service, although they seem to have (succesfully?) cornered a term that will be as familiar as ‘Hoover’ in a few years. It’s a bit like owning Web 2.0 or even Web 3.0. They are they’re and we’re not.
Not a lot we can do about that. Other than focus on your own site, build great content and be social.
.-= Matthew Needham´s last blog ..Challenge: Save £1000/$1000 in 30 days =-.
Yeah man top advice keep building keep pushing forward
Really thought provoking post James. Those are some tough questions. The thing is when people get big, it means they have a bigger audience (obviously). The larger amount of people though = more negativity/naysayers. I think it is pure jealousy and those comments really can’t be taken into account when considering advice. What does a bashing comment do for anyone? It makes the writer feel like crap and I guess it gives the commenter a high because they feel like they just did a big bad thing and stuck it to the man. Maybe the writer is too cocky in their work too, but that can be said constructively too. Getting 600 hits a day though, I really can’t believe that many of those people go there just to hate on him.
.-= Alex´s last blog ..Overcoming the Monday Blues =-.
Hey Alex,
He does get flack, but I would like to see a percentage of people who dislike to the people who like. Wouldn’t that be interesting?
James,
I don’t think everyone that is bashing people like Chris Brogan are jealous of him. He is just like anyone else that opens himself up to the public as someone special or knowledgeable. You had better deliver what you preach. Public scrutiny is tough, so you had better walk the talk. Some of the top level marketers fall into the same category. Not all but many. They have a few top selling products and then they start peddling junk and prey on innocent people that do not know any better. Nobody denies anyone from trying to make money from their blogs or products. They after all are trying to build a business to make money online. But these products have better be worth the price. Or pay the penalty of being called out.
I for one use to peddle all this junk when I first started out. I thought that was how you made money online. Then I learned about ethical marketing and stopped being a whore for this crap. Now I only promote people and products that I know work.
James, I wish you would get an email sign up here. I miss so many of your posts.
.-= Denise´s last blog ..Blogger Illustrated: Internet Marketing Defined =-.
Hey Denise, I’ll look for a plugin now
Let me know what one you get and what it’s like… I use feedburner at the mo but… considering other ideas.
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
Done brother thanks for the help
That’s better eh, now you watch ya subs go up
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
James, you could use Feedburner if you use that. Feedburner has an email setup.
.-= Denise´s last blog ..Blogger Illustrated: Internet Marketing Defined =-.
Rob beat me to it!
Hi Rob!
.-= Denise´s last blog ..Blogger Illustrated: Internet Marketing Defined =-.
Hi Denise.
Yeah, I use feedburner anyway, I actually think the formatting they have looks nice… http://feeds.feedburner.com/TheSilenceIsGolden looks good, shows alot more post on one page… and the email format is no worse then this.
It would be nice if we could ustulise the email set up better, ie, be able to have settings, like a once a week round up of post, have the ability to add content to the emails, exclusive to the email, this would be an incentive to get people subbing by email rather than by RSS.
Overall I like feedburner, it could be more and better though.
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
Thanks Denise just done it
James you have to set it up on your blog yet! I want to be your first subscriber.
.-= Denise´s last blog ..Blogger Illustrated: Internet Marketing Defined =-.
Denise it should be active?
Just checked it’s still being processed should be live soon
Got it! Yeah!!!!!
.-= Denise´s last blog ..Blogger Illustrated: Internet Marketing Defined =-.
Lets reduce this to something simple.
If it all about money which seems to be the consensus here, then he is doing the thing that makes him money.
If 130k followers and 65k tweets wow people and make them want to play big money to get the same results then he has focused where the money is. It’s apparent that his blog isn’t what he is “known” for to the rest of the world but a supporting piece to Twitter or Facebook.
It’s sad that he wouldn’t want to funnel people back to his own site and interact with them there because Twitter/Facebook can get shut off, down or go away overnight in popularity much like Bebo or Myspace.
So if time = money, then money = effort, we see that his effort is in speaking and lots of tweets, so speaking/tweets = money.
I get it. Just that it is super hard to educate people on Twitter who approach you with an issue or problem. Like Allyn mentioned above the blog can be used to help hundreds of people with the same problem and not receive double/triple-tap communication from people. My guess they double/triple -tapped him because he missed their blog comment, never saw their email answered and decided to hit them up on Twitter where they spend a huge amount of time.
My guess is if someone were to be social on their site in front of others the need for everybody’s random question would go down along with the inbox as well. Just a guess though.
Interesting discussion indeed.
.-= The Real Josh´s last blog ..Do you need no fluff social media consulting and Internet Marketing advice? =-.
Hey brother,
Yeah man I think that’s the real deal right there, people wouldn’t chase you if your there right from the start
I have to agree with a lot of what Allyn says, particularly this point “And finally, I always say this, but if people would step outside of the blogging/social media/internet marketing world, they’d find that all this drama doesn’t exist. I can all but guarantee that your local “I sell shag carpeting” blogger doesn’t feel any of these issues.”
What would happen if we weren’t talking about blogging and online social media? All this drama would be a non-event.
I, for one, have better uses for my time and energy and refuse to participate in ‘going to town’ on anyone. Can’t we all just get along?
Karen
.-= Karen´s last blog ..10 Things You Can Do Right Now To Improve Your Life =-.
Hi Karen,
Yeah I totally agree with you. I think in answer to your question is that not everyone will see eye to eye and it’s always going to be like that, that said I’m more than happy to let people crack on. It’s kind of like the supersize me film about McDonalds everyone has an opinion
I’m just going to ask the obvious question; You have ‘Chris Brogan’ in the title of your post, you mention him in the post, and his name’s all through the comments… where is he?
Not saying I expect busy people to stop by every time their name is mentioned, far from, but I do wonder if he’s even noticed. That aside…
Like some of the others, I used to follow him. Found nothing really of worth, unsubscribed. No big deal. Personally I see nothing wrong with bloggers in general making money, but something about the guy just rubs me the wrong way I’m afraid. Not about to slate him for it though because the blogosphere is more than big enough for us to not really collide.
Think I agree with Allyn too, once you become an authority in anything the critics will come out to play. But then (hopefully, if you’re doing it right) so will your followers. You don’t see Darren getting bashed too often, and when you do he’s pretty well defended (in a good way); that’s because he cares about the people that read his site, he’s active in the comments up to a point, and he doesn’t seem unapproachable. Chris… not so much.
.-= Heather´s last blog ..Webcomic: The Mayans Day 3 =-.
I don’t think that’s fair at all, in fact, Chris comments FAR more often on his blog than Darren does.
I’d venture a guess that Chris gets mentioned in no less than 100 posts per day…that’s a tough number to keep up with.
.-= Nathan Hangen´s last blog ..Social Media Has Become a Virus =-.
Hm, possibly I garbled my meaning there. Let me try again.
What I meant to say was that it’d be interesting to see what he had to say about this, though he isn’t exactly my cup of tea. As I said, I don’t follow the guy any more so I can’t really comment on the number of comments he makes or doesn’t make (I wasn’t assuming some small amount since we hear everywhere how he’s always really busy).
The reason I brought Darren into it was because I initially wanted to say something about how it was clear he cared about the people, and how he responded in posts as well as comments. The point I was trying to make was that the people that kept up with his stuff (generally, and I may be wrong here, it’s just how it seems to me) stand up for him a lot more when there is a complaint.
Certainly wasn’t trying to say ‘Oh god, I hate Brogan, he doesn’t do enough!’ it was more of a ‘Yea ok, he’s not my cup of tea, and I get the feeling he doesn’t care quite as much’. Could be way off base and I’m willing to be proven wrong, that’s just how it looks from here.
Hopefully I managed to get my meaning across that time lol.
.-= Heather´s last blog ..Webcomic: The Mayans Day 3 =-.
Darren is actually a nice bloke.
He has helped me before and he is approachable, I think he made a mistake getting involved with the turd thing though to be honest, he shouldn’t have needed to do that crap, if his success is what he say’s it is.
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
hear hear, Darren Rowse is a great guy, helped me a out a lot, top bloke, impossibly nice too !
“I’m just going to ask the obvious question; You have ‘Chris Brogan’ in the title of your post, you mention him in the post, and his name’s all through the comments… where is he?”
VERY good question.
Nathan, careful, you are sounding like a fanboy!
Why not add a google alert for his name to your email and see just how accurate that guess is…
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
Hey Rob do you use google alert for anything? I think David Risley and Darren Rowse use it but I might be mistaken
Yeah… my name
It’s a handy thing for a few uses.
Used it for years, all brands should be using it, many wouldn’t think about though, yet it’s ONE email a day.
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
haha, well I’m not really worried about that. Truth be told, I am a fan. Chris has never been anything other than generous on my behalf.
I’m just saying that Chris is an easy target because he’s visible, and that the talk of him not commenting on his blog is crazy…he does it all the time.
Just trying to keep the truth in front.
.-= Nathan Hangen´s last blog ..Social Media Has Become a Virus =-.
Be a fan by all means lol… just don’t let it sway ya thinking to much.
He may comment but nothing like what he ought to, Allyn is right.
To say he is an easy target because he is visible is daft, he MADE himself visible, gotta expect to have that and deal with it whatever happens.
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
Hey dude how’s your weekend?
On Chris not commenting on here, the post is only 5 hrs old so he could be asleep or out away from a computer or simply never heard of this site.
Darren has been on this site to comment before but never as quick as everyone else but that’s probably the same as Chris because they are dealing with a serious amount of interest and questions etc.
He might be along soon and hopefully you won’t get to that point here Heather !
Or hopefully he WILL get to it, there is alot to be learnt from both sides, to ignore one is foolish…
It just reinforces that side…
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
Going pretty well James
The post only being 5 hours old may have had something to do with it then, not sure why but I was thinking it’d been around since 8-9ish this morning! We’ll see if he appears then, could be interesting.
Must admit, I do like Darren. Get the feeling from him that we’d probably get along pretty well if we happened to meet. Both very busy guys though!
@Rob I think that once you get to a certain level of success it takes SO much time to do anything that you have to start prioritising. Where you place your priorities shows in the way you then execute things. Always interesting to watch.
.-= Heather´s last blog ..Webcomic: The Mayans Day 3 =-.
Yeah you are right… but how can twitter be a higher priority than your own blog?
I agree, very interesting to watch.
Look at the turd crap, they milked the money like lapdogs, wonder where that place sits on their priority list?
I’d say not very high…
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
Twitter’s for a different crowd; get it right, people follow you and actually listen to what you have to say. Then if you send along a link to your blog they’ll go along and visit.
I have no comment on the Third tribe stuff, mostly because it wasn’t the right fit for me so I decided early on I didn’t want to join in. Mostly I don’t pay a whole lot of attention to it, there’s better things to do with my time really.
.-= Heather´s last blog ..Webcomic: The Mayans Day 3 =-.
“Twitter’s for a different crowd; get it right, people follow you and actually listen to what you have to say. Then if you send along a link to your blog they’ll go along and visit.”
Yep… but pointless if you then ignore them on the blog too…
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
Ah but you see, he doesn’t ignore them outright. He’ll watch for common themes, comment where he has to, and make blog posts based on what people are asking/saying.
Doesn’t sound like ignoring to me
And who knows, maybe he just finds Twitter more fun.
.-= Heather´s last blog ..Webcomic: The Mayans Day 3 =-.
Maybe ignoring is the wrong word… but I always saw him being far more engaged on twitter than his blog, maybe that’s changed, no idea cos I don’t look at his blog anymore, it’s boring.
I don’t follow him on twitter either anymore.
I’d rather read YOUR stuff Heather.
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
Sorry Rob, but I just can’t agree with you. Then again, I don’t think a blogger has a responsibility of commenting back.
You might say that Chris does because he advocates that sort of thing, but I’d argue that he does it on behalf of businesses, not bloggers.
.-= Nathan Hangen´s last blog ..Social Media Has Become a Virus =-.
I don’t expect you to agree with me mate, glad to hear it in fact, you ain’t daft, so.
I agree, a blogger doesn’t have a responsibility to commenting back all the time BUT they have a responsibility to take it on the chin when people say anything about it, like Allyn did, he only pointed out Chris’s hypocrisy.
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
wow, lots of fun happening in this comment thread, …James, you have a real way of getting people talking and I respect that about you!
If I were in my old ways right now, I could make a huge video just f-bombing everyone for no apparent reason, just in the name of rawm sophomoric humor. But alas, I don’t act like that anymore.
.-= Allyn´s last blog ..How To Get Links By Darren Rowse And I Agree! =-.
Hm, it occurs to me that you missed an interesting conversation over at Dave Doolin’s blog as well then Allyn. Just sayin
Shame about the lack of f-bombs though. Those were entertaining (in a slightly mean way).
.-= Heather´s last blog ..Webcomic: The Mayans Day 3 =-.
F bomb? that like… wooooooooo fuck… boom!
Sound mighty dangerous!
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
Nice discussion – you can see real life action here !
I can’t say anything about Chris Brogan, I just don’t know enough about him. Who knows what can happen to me once I get up there
People at the top always get bombarded with criticism.
Instead of bashing other people, establish yourself as a leader and make your own impact on the web map !
.-= Mars Dorian´s last blog ..Gary Vaynerchuk For A Day ! =-.
Hey brother,
Leader or innovator?
Just out of curiosity, I went to that post of Chris’s and at the time of writing this… he posted 10 comments out the 159 that are there, they were ALL one or two lines…lame.
That is saying alot.
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
Sorry Rob, but it’s starting to sound like you have an axe to grind.
.-= Nathan Hangen´s last blog ..Social Media Has Become a Virus =-.
Why would I have an axe to grind?
He never caused me any problems, just telling it like it is… you go look at your comment on there, you sounding like a fanboy, so… I could say sorry mate, but you sound like ya kissing his ass but I don’t…
I don’t have any axe to grind with him at all, just stating it as I see it. That IS how I am and I ain’t changing that for anyone.
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
Like they say Nathan the PROOF is in the pudding, the proof is right there on THAT post.
Ironic, don’t you think?
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
Like I said, Chris has been a big help to me and I have no reason not to return the favor.
You are getting fired up because he’s only commented 10 times on his blog…I thought you said a blogger doesn’t have a responsibility to comment back?
Hell, it’s the weekend…the fact that we’re here instead of enjoying our day probably says more about us than anything.
.-= Nathan Hangen´s last blog ..Social Media Has Become a Virus =-.
Not saying he hasn’t been a help you, so you have way more reason to “big” him up than I do an axe to grind.
I am not “fired up” about it, just pointing it out… and he said in that very post that he spends hours commenting which looks a bit of a porkie to me.
I am not just listening to what he says, but seeing what he does and they don’t match up at all.
I did say that, BUT I also said you can’t then moan cos you can’t “keep up”…
If he wasn’t getting 600 emails a day (which I don’t believe by the way) maybe he could comment more, or whatever he feels he need’s to catch up on.
Try to not assume about me mate…
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online with words =-.
I personally have nothing against Chris as I believe strongly in capitalism and if he is focused on making money then so be it.
I am subscribed to his blog but very rarely do I find much value. Funny thing is, he could say absolutely nothing in a post and the blind “sheep” that retweet for the hell of it will retweet the post.
This is not to bash Chris, this is meant to just point out my experiences in reaching out to him: Reaching out to Chris is not as easy as he and many people make it sound to be. I have attempted to in quite a few different channels and never received any response or help. It is little frustrating hearing how easy he is to reach out to and how he promotes social media only to find it almost impossible to be “social” with him.
Its all good though, there are tons of other people with value who you can reach out too. GaryVee being one of them (who was absolutely probably the easiest person to reach out too, even versus smaller players and audiences.)
Bashing people publicly is not my cup of tea. However, I do find them very interesting to read and can see why people do it in terms of getting some eyeballs on their blog.
Chris is a busy man and a capitalist.
.-= Tanner | Life Destiny´s last blog ..Update on my “The Future of Driving” Post =-.
Yeah I have spoken to Gary too, awesome guy really busy though.
I have to say Chris tweated me tonight, I feel for him here because this is quite hot water to come into here. Good on him for actually getting in touch though, what do you think?
I can’ believe how people can get their panties all bunched up about something that is irrelevant. If Chris Brogan provides you value then by all means read him. He has given me some good ideas and direction but I don’t follow his blog daily. If he says something that helps me I want to know. Otherwise I don’t care what he is into. He is living his life. I am living mine. Why either of us should care about what direction the other heads is beyond me. You don’t have to buy any thing from him. You don’t have to listen to him. He’s just a guy. I’ve got better things to do than second guess other people’s lives.
Hear, hear!
Very well spoken and I totally agree with you, Ralph!
.-= Karen´s last blog ..Friday’s Links =-.
Hey Ralph,
That’s a great attitude and it’s something I’m going by, I suppose most people feel so passionate about it, because it’s something they are interested in maybe ? Not sure
Wow James! You know how to write a controversial post bro! Thanks for the mention, and I am glad you understand my position.
This reminds me of when fans of a rock band get pissed because they “sell out” for $. I guess we have become so used to everything being free and we must be “entitled” to it now.
I will be honest, every move I make online, has a purpose. Most likely that purpose includes profit. If someone doesn’t like that, then I say screw them. They can start feeding my daughter and paying my bills for me if they don’t like it.
I am sick of people saying that someone is a “sell out” simply because they make money, call it what it it is, envy!
I work hard to make money online, to the tune of 18+ hours a day, 6-7 days a week. I would be willing to bet that all of the “a-listers” you mention do to.
I will even go out on a limb (and I really don’t care if it is popular, because I am sick of this shit) and say the only ones that are bitching about it don’t actually have customers to deal with on their own sites.
So what Chris only gets 25 comments on a post, do comments make you money? Hell no. Don’t misunderstand me, I like comments, but 80% of your commentors will never buy anything you work hard to offer. I still try to reply to most of them on my site, but it is because I like to.
The only thing lame around here is people trying to decide what someone else should be doing to make money. Here in America (unlike many countries) we have the opportunities to become whoever we want to, I choose to embrace that freedom….
.-= Keith´s last blog ..Blog Tip: Secret To Success =-.
Hey brother,
That’s why I love you man because you’re real, in fact with that comment you have just inspired my next post and you will for sure get some link love for it.
That’s the same thing I said (to Rob I think) It’s his childrens inheritance so he can do what he wants really, I hope he does comment here, he has tweeted thanking me for my take on it, but I understand this is hot water for him
Keith, I love this line in your comment: “the only ones that are bitching about it don’t actually have customers to deal with on their own sites.”
This is exactly what I think most of the time when all these detractors start shouting at people for their business practices. You’re not alone with this opinion, dude.
.-= Jordan Cooper´s last blog ..The Perils Of Going From Free to Fee =-.
My gut feel is to say that people often like to attack success and the web is a great place to set up a soap box. I’m gonna have to go check out Chris’ site.
.-= Mo´s last blog ..The Rolex and the Unhealthy Zorro Obsession =-.
First, I didn’t read all the comments, but I read a sampling. Sorry. Still digging out of my redrawing/balancing efforts and it’ll be weeks before I’m on top of my game.
Let me lay out how my business works:
* I give away about 92% of what I do for free. I blog, do newsletters, do nonprofit events, and participate in bigger shows like SXSW for free. I do this because I want to see the larger space succeed. I think there are lots of opportunities for people to build family-sustaining businesses using social media tools.
* I do one charitable project per month just to show nonprofits what else we can do with it. For march, we raised money to send autistic kids to summer camp. We hit their goal in 9 hours.
* I don’t make $22K/day (god, I wish I did). I charge $22K for a day of my time. If I’m lucky, I get 1 or 2 takers a month for that. Part of it is professional speaking. Another part is customized consulting on some of what I cover in my blog. The irony is that people can hire my entire team of employees at New Marketing Labs for less than that number for an entire MONTH of help and execution. I’m the premium price. The team is more reasonably priced for people’s needs.
* Quick side note on those rates: other professional speakers in my same category charge more than me, some of them as much as 4x that. Al Gore makes $200,000 a speech, last I heard. That’s almost 10x what I get. (Mind you, I didn’t invent the Internet).
* Replying to every comment on my blog isn’t my business, and it’s not ever going to happen. I comment as much as I can, when I can, but it’s not a top priority item. The reason? I prioritize based on “can I help many with my time or one?” Comments are often solo-serving, and though they give you the warm feeling that I saw what you said (I read every comment, by the way, on my own blog), they are rarely the right place to help more people. That said, I’ve often turned ideas spawned in the comments into posts that will go out to my larger audience.
* I’ve always charged for my services. Nathan points out, rightly, that every time I roll out a new project that involves money, I get a bunch of blog posts from the Kumbaya crowd saying that I’ve sold out. Some people don’t blog as part of their business. I used to keep blogs about running and nutrition. But my blog is part of my business. It’s an asset that requires attention, and a place where I can share my projects with you. It’s my blog. That’s my decision. Seems dopey that people complain about what I put on my blog. If you don’t like it, just don’t go there.
* It’s okay that John Sullivan doesn’t like me. I don’t know him well. Not sure how he thinks he knows me. I did unfriend him on Facebook after he left a snarky comment on my wall. I’ve never met him. I love snark, if I know you. From strangers? No thanks.
* I forget what I did to Allyn, but he’s just replaying the same note over and over again about how I don’t comment back on every comment. Sorry, Allyn. I won’t be changing that any time soon.
* Am I arrogant? To some. If you’re not pissing someone off, you’re not really trying hard enough, are you? If I were to use that as a measure, then I’m really trying my ass off.
Hope this helps, gang. I won’t be looking for follow-ups, but did want to share my part.
.-= Chris Brogan…´s last blog ..Scaling Social Media =-.
Chris thanks for taking the time to reply, I’ll let everyone else reply if they want to, then I’ll respond in full.
Thanks for clearing that up Chris. Honestly hope I never become as busy as you lol (meant in a nice way, not a snide way). Keep on keeping on.
.-= Heather´s last blog ..Webcomic: The Mayans Day 3 =-.
“I charge $22K for a day of my time. If I’m lucky, I get 1 or 2 takers a month for that.”
Certainly not an amount to be sniffed at… not sure you are worth it though to be honest, I certainly wouldn’t pay that if I had it.
Can I now ask you Chris.. why bother putting any aff links on the blog because the shit you get for that (we all get it it seems, the idiots who do it are not worth responding to anyway) is simply not worth the “few pennies” it creates…
Is it?
I can’t understand that myself to be frank with you, you even posted a post about the shit you get from that, so why bother?
Replying to comments on your blog may not be your business, (fair point too) but then why would others bother commenting on your blog I don’t know, I certainly won’t cos if you can’t take it seriously, why should I?
No personal offence on that, just the way I see it.
Why do you “moan” about not being able to handle all you get and then still ask or let people just email you?
That just doesn’t make sense to me at all.
Not sire you are looking at it from the other side of the coin, you said yourself you didn’t even READ all the comments here…
But you expect others to see things from your side… it’s a two way street Chris.
You said you won’t even be looking at the follow ups… that is lame.
Proved the point clearly about WHY these people bash you.
Rob
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online creating products =-.
Hi Chris, you have not done anything to me.
But you are good at twisting words bubba. I never said anything about replying to “EVERY” comment, but you sir, reply to very few. You are very good at tearing down straw men and you know it.
Like I have told you before, if you were an oil filter advocate, it would not be such a big deal, but you are a social media guy with 35K subs and you get 25 comments average per post and reply to maybe one or two.
That is just hypocritical to me, and I am not the only one who sees this. You charge for social media services, which means you will also get criticized… that’s business, even oil filter companies get criticized by oil filter users ya know?
I think you are a good guy who has gotten too big for his britches, and frankly, I pitty those businesses that invest money in your advice.
AL
.-= Allyn´s last blog ..How To Get Links By Darren Rowse And I Agree! =-.
Thanks Chris for taking the time to comment. I’m becoming more of a fan of yours and a hell of a lot less fan of these jealous wannabes. Kudo’s for you and your efforts and much praise for your success in building the way for the rest of us.
I may never reach a point that some pioneers have but I won’t stoop as low as to ever again comment on one of these suckers blogs anymore either.
Competivenss is a healthy thing. Cry babies and whiners are losers. Keep that attitude John and Rob and stay on the bottom of B-losers list. Your choice I guess.
Cry babies and losers?? lol… ok Lees..
Sure… nothing wrong with my attitude, just being honest, want me to lie?
Would you respect me more then?
Not that I care, just so you know…
Aren’t you being a hypocrite there?
Consider that, what you just said is exactly what you slam me for…
I am not bothered if you never comment on my blog, but don’t call me names, I never called you or even Chris names.
Did I?
B-losers list… lol… listen to yourself lees.
I am just stating my honest opinion, didn’t call anyone names, so you make yourself look worse than me.
Hypocrites don’t get anywhere.
.-= Rob Sellen´s last blog ..Make money online creating products =-.
I feel like I’ve wandered into a childrens playground. Seriously, what the hell guys?
Chillaxing is required.
.-= Heather´s last blog ..Webcomic: The Mayans Day 3 =-.
Hi Chris,
A mistake of mine not to reply first seen as it’s my site so for that I apologies, manners are important.
Brother you have made you mark in this world, you have made a serious pot for your family and it’s something all fathers and husbands strive for.
Now I know you are going to get some replies that you may not deserve, because quite simply you are one person making your way in life to actually put food on your families table and I respect that, I also respect the fact that you are essentially providing for your children’s children.
I can’t speak for everyone and I won’t pretend to as this site has a community that is strong and willing to put their point across which they will with their usual vigor.
Brother all I can say is I wish you the very best of luck as I wish anyone the best of luck on this site, I don’t wish for anyone to fail, I want every single person to succeed in their goal as long as that goal is admirable and doesn’t cause any pain to anyone else.
I’m knew to this game, hell I’m ex-military Physical Training Instructor, homeless as a kid and the original dumb ass, but I know heart when I come across it and you do have it.
Do your thing brother, others will do theirs
I’m a very big fan of Chris Brogan, his posts are quick and to the point and I always find great ideas every time I read his blog.
.-= Ms. Freeman´s last blog ..5 Steps to Greater Efficiency =-.
Cool dude, I actually loved reading his last post
Hey James,
Surely, everything in blogland is about selling something. Whether it is your book, your point of view, your products, your consulting services…..free or not. Anyone, who thinks otherwise is deluded.
The only thing if anything that could be at fault here is how the transition from being all free to being free with stuff for sale has not been managed well enough. But hey ho, you can’t please all of the people all of time.
Hats off to the peeps that put the work in, provide the value and, also, manage the transition. Be open and honest.
And here’s a first for the net, in a few months I’ll be selling my book form the site. If that ‘pisses’ people off….tough!
Adrian
.-= Adrian Swinscoe´s last blog ..Teams and birds: lessons from nature =-.
Fantastic news Adrian well done !
Man this really has become such a big issue, lol.
I personally have nothing against Chris Brogan, I do find his blog to be a total bore, and completely irrelevant to making money online, which is what I’m interested in.
Also, I do think that many people have the “herd” mentality and blindly follow the “A-List” bloggers simply because of their fame and subscriber counts, which is a shame because many do not offer anything of value. Just because you’re famous, doesn’t mean you’re right!
.-= JR ´s last blog ..Free Automated Social Bookmarking Service =-.
JR that’s awesome, I love that line just because your famous. Top comment!
I’ve heard it said – if you don’t want criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.
.-= Keiran´s last blog ..Do we need to feel the fear before we do it? =-.